#archlinux-ports | Logs for 2017-07-15

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[04:11:29] <fsckd> hallo, a running 32bit Arch is asking if one will be able to transition to archlinux32 easily?
[04:11:41] <fsckd> a person running...*
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[08:11:34] <deep42thought> fsckd: yes, it is easy
[08:43:49] <deep42thought> I put a paragraph on the website about the transition (it still needs some time to propagate there) - it is not optimal, yet, but a good start for all, wondering, how hard a transition would be.
[08:47:52] <deep42thought> e.g. I did not create a transition package yet and there is no instruction on checking the signature, yet
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[14:00:21] <deep42thought> I'm currently working on the transition-package, any input is welcome :-)
[14:01:05] <deep42thought> my idea was to put the package into our "core" repository, make the user change a mirror by hand, running 'pacman -Syy archlinux32-transition' and 'pacman -Syu' afterwards
[14:02:51] <deep42thought> the archlinux32-transition package then only needs to set up the keyring
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[14:03:02] <deep42thought> and it needs to be signed by City-busz, so it's trusted
[14:03:53] <deep42thought> archlinux32-keyring, on the other hand, can/should conflict with the package (and replace it), so that archlinux32-transition will get removed afterwards automatically
[14:05:02] <City-busz> do we really need the archlinux32-transition package? installing archlinux32-keyring isn't enough?
[14:05:19] <deep42thought> good point
[14:05:46] <deep42thought> on the other hand, we would need you to sign each release of archlinux32-keyring, then
[14:09:34] <deep42thought> City-busz: Are you planning to set up a build slave?
[14:16:02] <City-busz> currently how does it work?
[14:16:11] <deep42thought> a build slave?
[14:16:43] <deep42thought> clone the scripts, get your key into the keyring, get access to the buildmaster -> run
[14:21:40] <deep42thought> https://bbs.archlinux32.org
[14:25:08] <fsckd> deep42thought: thanks for the answer. That does sound easy.
[14:27:00] <deep42thought> fsckd: yes, but currently, the "chain of trust" is broken
[14:27:27] <deep42thought> that's the reason why we wanted to create some semi-official transition package (e.g. signed by a trusted user)
[14:28:12] <fsckd> Ah, that is a good idea.
[14:32:53] <brtln> that's why last time I suggested a transition package that would include only master keys
[14:34:18] <deep42thought> one, that basically only does "pacman-key --add $masterKey" and "pacman --lsign-key $masterkey"?
[14:34:41] <deep42thought> s/pacman /pacman-key /
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[15:53:45] <DanielTheFox> hiya
[15:54:41] <rewbycraft> Hello
[15:56:17] <DanielTheFox> who knows about the archlinux32 thing?
[15:56:23] <rewbycraft> Most people here
[15:57:35] <DanielTheFox> ok
[15:58:13] <DanielTheFox> I just wanted to know if I can switch from ArchLinux to ArchLinux32 by just switching the package sources
[15:58:29] <DanielTheFox> I already have ArchLinux i686
[15:58:58] <DanielTheFox> but it's being phased out, so I'd better keep up with ArchLinux32
[15:59:29] <rewbycraft> You also have to install the keyring package I believe. Let me find the bit deepthought wrote about it
[16:01:08] <rewbycraft> DanielTheFox: The steps as far as I'm aware are: Switch out the mirrorlist with the one from https://raw.githubusercontent.com then run pacman -Syyw archlinux32-keyring and pacman -U /var/cache/pacman/pkg/archlinux32-keyring-*.pkg.tar.xz to get the keyring sorted and pacman -Suu to finish the transition off
[16:11:50] <deep42thought> I wrote a paragraph there: https://archlinux32.org
[16:11:51] <phrik> Title: Arch Linux 32 (at archlinux32.org)
[16:13:23] <deep42thought> if something there does not work as expected, let me know and I'll change it
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[16:55:23] <DanielTheFox> deep42thought, are the packages still there?
[16:56:50] <rewbycraft> What do you mean, DanielTheFox?
[16:57:05] <rewbycraft> We should have all packages arch i686 has
[16:57:12] <DanielTheFox> ok
[16:57:24] <DanielTheFox> I assume they won't be updated
[16:58:15] <rewbycraft> Updating the package is the majority of this project
[16:58:20] <rewbycraft> The whole point is to keep the updates flowing
[16:58:34] <DanielTheFox> ok
[16:58:40] <DanielTheFox> neat :D
[16:58:42] <rewbycraft> There's a few packaging being problems, but deep42thought is our packaging magician
[16:58:50] <rewbycraft> s/packaging/packages
[16:59:27] <rewbycraft> We're trying to get the system to automatically build packages as updates become available in upstream arch
[16:59:59] <DanielTheFox> ok
[17:00:38] <DanielTheFox> directly, how to I change the mirror list of ArchLinux?
[17:01:28] <rewbycraft> You change the /etc/pacman/mirrorlist file
[17:01:59] <DanielTheFox> any list or something? what can I write to that file?
[17:02:18] <rewbycraft> It's on the link provided by deep42thought or one of the links I gave
[17:02:30] <DanielTheFox> ok
[17:02:35] * DanielTheFox scrolls
[17:03:31] <DanielTheFox> oopsie doopsie
[17:03:52] <DanielTheFox> there's no /etc/pacman/ directorie
[17:04:00] <DanielTheFox> *directory
[17:04:10] <rewbycraft> It's /etc/pacman.d
[17:04:12] <rewbycraft> I typod
[17:04:19] <DanielTheFox> ok
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[17:06:01] <DanielTheFox> so I opened the text file with a list of servers
[17:06:33] <DanielTheFox> both local (still having ArchLinux repos) and the text file generated online on github
[17:07:13] <DanielTheFox> so I have to copy the mirror list from the github text file to my /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist
[17:07:17] <DanielTheFox> right?
[17:07:43] <rewbycraft> Essentially, yes
[17:08:05] <rewbycraft> Make sure to uncomment some servers
[17:08:39] <DanielTheFox> do I have to keep some commented or I can uncomment ALL the servers?
[17:09:14] <rewbycraft> You can uncomment all
[17:10:09] <DanielTheFox> ok
[17:10:15] <DanielTheFox> I want to have all uncommented
[17:10:18] <DanielTheFox> so if one fails
[17:10:26] <DanielTheFox> there's another mirror
[17:10:30] <rewbycraft> Yeah
[17:10:55] <DanielTheFox> lately, it has been happening that pacman has to go through a long list of mirrors before finding the right file
[17:11:12] <DanielTheFox> maybe the mirrors are starting to delete some i686 files
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[17:24:23] <DanielTheFox> whoops
[17:24:34] <DanielTheFox> there's an error with certain file
[17:25:46] <DanielTheFox> error: archlinux32-keyring: signature from "Erich Eckner (just to sign arch packages) <arch@eckner.net>" is unknown trust
[17:26:33] <rewbycraft> The instructions should cover it
[17:26:45] <rewbycraft> If they don't, poke deep42thought
[17:27:10] <DanielTheFox> the file /var/cache/pacman/pkg/archlinux32-keyring-20170515-1-any.pkg.tar.xz is corrupted (invalid or corrupted package (PGP signature)).
[17:27:37] <rewbycraft> How are you trying to install it?
[17:27:47] <rewbycraft> You may have to import the key into pacman
[17:28:03] <DanielTheFox> well
[17:28:29] <DanielTheFox> I didpacman -Syyw archlinux32-keyring
[17:28:34] <DanielTheFox> I did pacman -Syyw archlinux32-keyring
[17:28:43] <DanielTheFox> after changing the mirrors and servers
[17:28:47] <rewbycraft> Hmh
[17:28:50] <DanielTheFox> to the new archlinux32
[17:29:03] <rewbycraft> You should be able to ignore that error
[17:29:13] <DanielTheFox> it asks me to delete the file
[17:29:20] <rewbycraft> Don't
[17:29:43] <DanielTheFox> Errors occurred, no packages were updated
[17:29:47] <DanielTheFox> is this normal?
[17:30:04] <rewbycraft> Depends on the command that produced that
[17:30:29] <DanielTheFox> pacman -Syyw archlinux32-keyring
[17:30:31] <DanielTheFox> :)
[17:30:41] <rewbycraft> Ignore the error with that command
[17:30:48] <rewbycraft> and proceed to the -U command
[17:31:48] <DanielTheFox> ok
[17:36:57] <DanielTheFox> well, everything got right
[17:37:12] <DanielTheFox> I'll have a nice time downloading almost 600 MB of packages xD
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[18:13:03] <deep42thought> sry, I was afk
[18:14:53] <deep42thought> ah, crap, it seems, my instructions don't work :-(
[18:15:37] <fsckd> they work. one merely needs to follow them in full. :)
[18:15:47] <rewbycraft> Yup
[18:15:55] <deep42thought> yeah, but I intended them to not produce signature-errors
[18:16:06] <rewbycraft> Ah yeah, that they fail at
[18:16:26] <rewbycraft> deep42thought: Also, you were considering a package... why not just distribute a "transition" script?
[18:16:52] <deep42thought> a transition-script would also break the chain of trust
[18:17:08] <rewbycraft> Fair enough
[18:17:21] <fsckd> just put the steps: (1) import key (2) ...
[18:18:42] <deep42thought> yeah, we could also instruct the user to manually install the key witch pacman-key
[18:20:14] <rewbycraft> Probably a decent solution for now
[18:46:03] <DanielTheFox> rewbycraft: I'm glad I can keep using ArchLinux i686
[18:46:17] <DanielTheFox> will someone make a channel specifically for Arch Linux 32?
[18:51:24] <deep42thought> for now, this is the channel
[18:52:12] <DanielTheFox> ok
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[19:50:01] <deep42thought> rewbycraft: regarding "packages magician": the switch to the new devtools(32) and subsequent rebuild of quite a lot packages breaks another couple builds :-/
[19:50:22] <deep42thought> also quite a few from core
[19:51:53] <rewbycraft> Ouch
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[19:55:54] <deep42thought> sometimes it's a little frustrating, but I keep telling myself, that I only see the problematic packages and not the ~2k successful builds
[19:57:05] <DanielOfService> deep42thought: ca-certificates-utils: /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt exists in file system
[19:57:17] <DanielOfService> after downloading everything :S
[19:57:25] <DanielOfService> it didn't install :(
[19:57:45] <rewbycraft> DanielOfService: https://www.archlinux.org
[19:57:46] <phrik> Title: Arch Linux - News: ca-certificates-utils 20170307-1 upgrade requires manual intervention (at www.archlinux.org)
[19:57:58] <rewbycraft> That's from upstream arch
[19:58:01] <deep42thought> not my/our fault :-)
[19:58:05] <DanielOfService> ok
[19:58:08] <fsckd> DanielOfService: when was the last time you did Syu?
[19:58:14] <rewbycraft> You haven't updated that machine in a while, have you?
[19:58:18] <DanielOfService> yes
[20:00:46] <DanielOfService> a month or so
[20:01:16] <DanielOfService> ok, everything is going
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[20:01:24] <fsckd> the ca-certificates thing is from 4 months ago
[20:01:44] <DanielOfService> then my head is working faulty :S
[20:01:53] <DanielOfService> ok, now everything is upgrading
[20:01:58] <fsckd> :)
[20:02:01] <DanielOfService> while chatting and playing music
[20:02:14] <deep42thought> multitasking \o/
[20:02:31] <fsckd> |
[20:02:35] <fsckd> / \
[20:02:38] <DanielOfService> :D
[20:02:51] <rewbycraft> Hah
[20:03:06] <DanielOfService> | |
[20:03:14] <DanielOfService> | |
[20:03:14] <rewbycraft> I'm multitasking between irc, discord, a router or two and my travel laptop
[20:06:12] <DanielOfService> multitasking is nice :D
[20:06:56] <DanielOfService> ok, everything is done :)
[20:06:59] <DanielOfService> everything
[20:07:41] <DanielOfService> thanks so much :)
[20:07:53] <DanielOfService> you told me how to keep my i686 system running
[20:07:55] <DanielOfService> :D
[20:07:57] <deep42thought> you might want to reboot, since you for sure upgraded your kernel
[20:07:58] <deep42thought> :-)
[20:08:04] <DanielOfService> maybe
[20:08:12] <DanielOfService> but I'll keep that for later
[20:08:29] <rewbycraft> Houston I've got a ping! *dances*
[20:08:30] <deep42thought> this is good for bad surprises
[20:08:38] <rewbycraft> ^
[20:08:46] <rewbycraft> Always reboot asap when a kernel update happens
[20:08:57] <rewbycraft> It's just gonna do weird stuff if you don't
[20:09:09] <DanielOfService> ok
[20:09:17] <deep42thought> like refuse to 'mount -o loop ...'
[20:09:25] <rewbycraft> Or mount most things
[20:09:36] <DanielOfService> ok
[20:09:40] * DanielOfService gonna reboot
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[20:10:12] <deep42thought> this is (one reason), why I don't compile stuff into modules on my desktop machine (not arch) ...
[20:11:33] <rewbycraft> I just deal with it, usually
[20:11:50] <rewbycraft> I just rebooted a few of my arch routers because they had a kernel update
[20:12:00] <rewbycraft> But I got my stuff setup such that it's not a big deal to reboot
[20:13:21] <deep42thought> yeah, but sometimes, I have something running, which I don't like to interrupt - and then it's really nice to know, that your kernel has all it needs onboard
[20:18:38] <rewbycraft> True
[20:18:52] <rewbycraft> On the other hand, generally speaking when you have something running, the modules are already loaded
[20:18:57] <rewbycraft> Or rather, the modules you neecd
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[20:23:14] <deep42thought> yes, maybe it's a bad idea in general to make package updates when something important is still running ;-)
[20:23:31] <deep42thought> but I don't care (enough)
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[20:27:28] <fsckd> they rejoined -newbie but not here. :/
[20:28:10] <rewbycraft> Welp
[20:28:28] <fsckd> if they ask for support there, they will be directed to the 32 forums. or is this channel ok for support?
[20:30:33] <rewbycraft> One the one hand, I don't see why not. On the other hand, ...
[20:31:22] <deep42thought> whoever is old school enough to use irc might understand computers enough to get help here ;-)
[20:31:36] <fsckd> haha
[20:31:44] <rewbycraft> Abandon all hope, ye who enter here!
[20:32:04] <fsckd> !grab rewbycraft
[20:32:05] <phrik> fsckd: Tada!
[20:33:13] <fsckd> just want to be clear where to direct users of archlinux32 to seek support. since technically its not Arch Linux, despite being very, very close.
[20:34:06] <deep42thought> I'd say, this channel is the equivalence to #archlinux for 32 bit, but I might be wrong
[20:35:14] <rewbycraft> It's the equiv of #archlinux for anything !amd64 that doesn't already have it's own channel I think
[20:38:47] <deep42thought> ok, so for now, it is for 32 bit only
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[20:52:16] <deep42thought> fsckd: note, that I'm not the one responsible for the channel - if you want some official statement, you might need to ping brtln
[20:52:30] <fsckd> Ok
[20:52:34] <fsckd> Thanks
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[22:46:27] <{levi}> FWIW, the reason mounting anything after a pacman Syu kernel update is it moves all your LKMs in /usr/lib/modules/[ver]/kernel/fs to a new folder, meanwhile you're still running under the old kernel version.
[22:47:06] <{levi}> It surprises me the whole kernel doesn't fall apart more quickly after you move all its modules out from under it.
[22:47:30] <deep42thought> the kernel is much more than its modules ...
[22:47:33] <{levi}> s/mounting anything/mounting anything fails/
[22:47:58] <{levi}> True enough.
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[22:56:47] <{levi}> Microkernels are for losers, etc.
[22:57:03] <fsckd> lol
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