#archlinux32 | Logs for 2025-04-12
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[07:25:33] <Xogium> hi :) say, can I use this distro on i586, or do you mostly support i686 ?
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[09:57:00] <Xogium> after making use of the tias method, I can conform that no, this won't work. At least, not on this hardware
[09:57:12] <Xogium> *confirm, even
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[10:56:50] <KitsuWhooa> Xogium: you can run i486 probably
[10:56:59] <KitsuWhooa> But it barely functions
[10:57:14] <KitsuWhooa> Last I heard, no gui at the very least
[11:03:07] <Xogium> KitsuWhooa: yeah that machine has no gpu or even graphical output so that wouldn't be an issue
[11:03:53] <Xogium> but after plugging in the ethernet cable and such and waiting over 10 minutes just for why not, nothing happens beyond the initial bios bringing up the network interface. So possibly the thing doesn't even try to boot, or chokes
[11:27:40] <KitsuWhooa> The i486 iso?
[11:28:03] <KitsuWhooa> Also, how much ram?
[11:35:47] <Xogium> I tried i686, didn't see i586 so I guess time to find the i486 iso... which are not linked to on the main page from what I can see ?
[11:35:52] <Xogium> 128 mb of ram
[11:39:01] <Xogium> there appears to be no 486 iso at all
[11:39:20] <Xogium> all the iso I can find on every mirror are i686
[11:43:17] <Xogium> so was 486 ever supported ?
[11:50:42] <KitsuWhooa> The arch is there, but uh
[11:50:47] <KitsuWhooa> I don't remember where the iso is
[11:51:02] <KitsuWhooa> You can try building it yourself
[11:51:17] <Xogium> oh ? Any guide for doing that ?
[11:52:04] <KitsuWhooa> there's this https://mirror.archlinux32.org
[11:52:24] <KitsuWhooa> You'll probably have to fight with the keyrings
[11:52:30] <Xogium> oof might be very hard to update it, if it can boot
[11:52:54] <KitsuWhooa> I mean, if you manually download the keyring package you can force install it
[11:52:58] <KitsuWhooa> that should in theory do it
[11:53:07] <Xogium> hopefully, yeah
[11:53:17] <Xogium> well, lets see if it will even boot up first
[11:53:21] <KitsuWhooa> there's this https://git.archlinux32.org
[11:53:23] <phrik> Title: archi486 - Archlinux32 i486 tools (at git.archlinux32.org)
[11:53:24] <KitsuWhooa> I've never used it
[11:54:28] <Xogium> this is not a conventional pc so to speak, it's an embedded 32 bit x86 machine, that uses a vortex86ex SoC. But it *should* work with i586 and probably lower
[11:54:58] <Xogium> lets see what it thinks of that iso
[11:58:03] <Xogium> if I can get that to boot, I might flash it on a pendrive and attempt an installation
[11:58:40] <KitsuWhooa> only other way I can think of is to do the installation via a chroot
[11:59:30] <Xogium> yeah and the only OS I've managed to boot on this thing so far is the *outdated* andbeyond ancient ubuntu 12.04 fork they came up with
[11:59:53] <KitsuWhooa> oh
[12:00:11] <KitsuWhooa> are you sure it's a PC? :p
[12:00:38] <KitsuWhooa> as in, IBM PC compatible
[12:00:51] <KitsuWhooa> because I doubt linux is going to boot on it otherwise, especially since you mention a fork
[12:03:06] <Xogium> I'm not sure of anything yet :D
[12:04:10] <Xogium> I was handed this hardware in like "make this work or else" fashion
[12:04:58] <Xogium> I've done embedded linux in the past, but I only touched x86_64 a handful of times, the rest was all ARM and mips
[12:05:32] <Xogium> yeah hmm nothing appears to be coming up with this iso either. Alright then
[12:05:48] <KitsuWhooa> you said no video out
[12:05:53] <KitsuWhooa> what do you expect to happen without video out?
[12:05:53] <Xogium> yeah
[12:06:07] <Xogium> some network connection at the very least :)
[12:06:22] <KitsuWhooa> it's probably stuck waiting for you to hit enter on syslinux or w/e the iso uses
[12:06:41] <KitsuWhooa> realistically you want to hook up a serial console to it
[12:06:55] <KitsuWhooa> I can't remember if the default iso loader displays over serial
[12:07:05] <Xogium> but beynd the initial hey I'm up from the bios, there's nothing. It doesn't even get an ip since that thing doesn't do pxe, so what I'd have expected is to see it coming up via bios, then coming back down, then a bit later it should be brought up again by arch
[12:07:27] <Xogium> oh
[12:07:42] <KitsuWhooa> you're probably waiting on https://itsfoss.com
[12:07:59] <Xogium> I thought there was a timeout on that thing ?
[12:08:00] <KitsuWhooa> What's the CPU on it?
[12:08:10] <KitsuWhooa> there might be
[12:08:13] <KitsuWhooa> I don't remeber
[12:08:15] <Xogium> it's literally that, vortex86ex SoC
[12:08:19] <KitsuWhooa> oh
[12:08:32] <KitsuWhooa> OH
[12:08:34] <KitsuWhooa> that thing
[12:09:06] <Xogium> yeah, *that*
[12:09:29] <Xogium> as is usual with embedded, hardware is well made... Software is a nuclear disaster
[12:09:45] <KitsuWhooa> do you have a serial console?
[12:10:16] <KitsuWhooa> I think SiS software in general was a nuclear disaster :p
[12:10:38] <Xogium> according to this I should have 4 of them. 3 are accessed via actual pins on the hardware a la raspberry pi type of thing, and the 4th is rs232
[12:11:12] <Xogium> but there appears to be nothing showing up on rs232 with what I was able to try out
[12:11:36] <KitsuWhooa> i486 should boot on that thing
[12:11:39] <KitsuWhooa> so something else is probably happening
[12:11:54] <KitsuWhooa> what are you booting from?
[12:12:30] <Xogium> actually that's the weirdest thing... The i686 iso made the board grow warm, in a normal way that is, but i486 iso, the metalic enclosure remains cold
[12:12:40] <Xogium> full size sd card
[12:13:29] <KitsuWhooa> and you got 12.04 to boot off the same card?
[12:13:32] <Xogium> yeah
[12:13:58] <KitsuWhooa> maybe rs232 isn't the first console
[12:14:09] <Xogium> that's what I' now starting to think
[12:14:20] <KitsuWhooa> you are using a null modem cable, right?
[12:14:36] <Xogium> yeah, heck yeah I got bitten by that one a few times
[12:15:08] <KitsuWhooa> and I assume no kind of optional PCI/ISA slot you can hook up to that thing?
[12:15:13] <KitsuWhooa> just to get a VGA out
[12:15:29] <Xogium> not that I'm aware of
[12:17:18] <KitsuWhooa> I'm trying to think of an x86 serial test
[12:17:33] <KitsuWhooa> memtest86+ has serial but you need to explicitly select it
[12:17:54] <KitsuWhooa> maybe install just grub on the sd card and enable the serial console?
[12:18:18] <KitsuWhooa> and then maybe you can load a kernel of another medium manually with console= specified
[12:18:34] <KitsuWhooa> s/of/from/
[12:18:55] <KitsuWhooa> and you should easily be able to change grub's serial console
[12:19:22] <Xogium> worth a try
[12:19:51] <KitsuWhooa> granted this is amd64, but gets the idea across https://tasossah.com
[12:20:05] <Xogium> but I'm going to try the i686 iso again, because it seems to make the board run more than the 486 for whatever reason, the 486 remains cold
[12:20:18] <KitsuWhooa> the chances of i686 running are pretty low
[12:20:25] <KitsuWhooa> says your cpu doesn't even support CMOV
[12:20:28] <KitsuWhooa> let alone SSE
[12:20:37] <KitsuWhooa> it might limp boot without SSE, but not without CMOV I don't think
[12:20:48] <KitsuWhooa> maybe it while(1);'d and that's why it got hot
[12:21:05] <Xogium> I *think* recent kernels can emulate that instruction, but I could be wrong
[12:21:16] <KitsuWhooa> on amd64 I'd assume
[12:21:23] <KitsuWhooa> I know it emulates UMIP
[12:21:34] <KitsuWhooa> er
[12:21:37] <KitsuWhooa> emulates because of UMIP
[12:22:41] <Xogium> https://lkml.org
[12:22:42] <phrik> Title: LKML: Marcos Del Sol Vives: [PATCH v3] x86: add NOPL and CMOV emulation (at lkml.org)
[12:22:50] <Xogium> that is what I found
[12:22:53] <KitsuWhooa> oh wow
[12:23:19] <KitsuWhooa> The way this emulation is implemented is fairly simple: it uses the illegal instruction handler to trap these unsupported instructions, and evaluates them in software.
[12:23:22] <KitsuWhooa> oh that is SLOW
[12:23:27] <KitsuWhooa> on an already SLOOOOOW chip
[12:23:33] <KitsuWhooa> I don't think we set X86_INSN_EMU
[12:23:38] <KitsuWhooa> let me check
[12:23:57] <Xogium> bit different: DM&P is still manufacturing their i586-only Vortex86
[12:23:59] <Xogium> SoCs, and many embedded devices still in use are stuck on legacy SoCs
[12:24:10] <Xogium> heh heh so it is i586, presumably
[12:25:05] <Xogium> no clue what makes it refuse to behave on the 486 iso, but there nothing's going on. I even hooked a keyboard for the hell of it, and pressed enter just to see what would happen, would it get warming up a little, would it show up in the network, nop
[12:25:14] <KitsuWhooa> interesting
[12:25:56] <Xogium> I don't even see the bios of this thing
[12:26:11] <KitsuWhooa> there's no X86_INSN_EMU
[12:26:17] <KitsuWhooa> did this ever get merged?
[12:26:26] <Xogium> I'm not sure
[12:26:48] <Xogium> finding patches is all good, but finding if they were merged, I was never good at this
[12:27:26] <KitsuWhooa> I just grep in my local source tree for keywords
[12:28:03] <KitsuWhooa> or in this case also the presence of arch/x86/kernel/soft86.c
[12:28:11] <KitsuWhooa> anyway, no, it hasn'
[12:28:14] <KitsuWhooa> t gotten merged
[12:28:18] <Xogium> hm
[12:28:28] <Xogium> so much for that
[12:29:05] <Xogium> so I guess like you said it while loops or something and gives the illusion it might be doing something when it's not, while 486 just... Well I don't know what it's going on with that one
[12:29:41] <KitsuWhooa> your best bet is to get grub running from a serial console
[12:29:45] <KitsuWhooa> then you can manually try loading things
[12:30:01] <KitsuWhooa> (not chainload)
[12:30:48] <KitsuWhooa> (Also, unrelated, but I was like "hm, this nickname sounds familiar". Hello fellow liquidsoap user :p)
[12:30:50] <Xogium> time to find what tty has this rs232
[12:30:59] <Xogium> hello hello :D
[12:31:43] <KitsuWhooa> you know, a JTAG probe would be very useful in this case =p
[12:31:50] <Xogium> I know right
[12:31:56] <KitsuWhooa> (I'm sure it's unobtainium)
[12:32:03] <Xogium> indeed
[12:32:30] <Xogium> that hardware is already marked off as obsolete, but we got it anyway because we need to run a legacy piece of c... Erm, software, I mean
[12:32:41] <KitsuWhooa> :p
[12:33:15] <KitsuWhooa> GRUB_TERMINAL="console serial"
[12:33:17] <KitsuWhooa> GRUB_SERIAL_COMMAND="serial --unit=0 --speed=115200 --word=8 --parity=no --stop=1"
[12:33:25] <KitsuWhooa> I have these two lines at the end of my /etc/default/grub
[12:33:35] <KitsuWhooa> you probably don't want consoole
[12:34:06] <Xogium> yeah that wouldn't be of much use indeed
[12:34:38] <KitsuWhooa> it translates to these in grub.cfg
[12:34:41] <KitsuWhooa> serial --unit=0 --speed=115200 --word=8 --parity=no --stop=1
[12:34:42] <KitsuWhooa> terminal_input console serial
[12:34:44] <KitsuWhooa> terminal_output console serial
[12:34:54] <Xogium> interesting
[12:35:40] <Xogium> guessing that --unit=0 is the port
[12:35:53] <KitsuWhooa> I'd assume so as well
[12:38:47] <Xogium> whoa the archlinux32 486 iso has not created a partition on the sd card when I dd it
[12:38:53] <Xogium> unlike the i686
[12:39:12] <Xogium> no wonder it doesn't boot
[12:39:25] <KitsuWhooa> no iso 966whatever
[12:39:36] <KitsuWhooa> 9660
[12:39:49] <KitsuWhooa> maybe try booting the iso in a VM
[12:39:50] <Xogium> oh so the iso format for 486 is different, too ?
[12:39:54] <KitsuWhooa> I have no idea
[12:39:59] <Xogium> well, damn. Learn something new every day don't we
[12:40:01] <KitsuWhooa> I've never used it
[12:40:13] <KitsuWhooa> sorry, that was meant to be a question
[12:40:16] <KitsuWhooa> no iso9660?
[12:40:25] <Xogium> lets see
[12:40:59] <KitsuWhooa> maybe the sbc can't boot a disc image off the sd card
[12:41:00] <Xogium> archlinux32-2022.12.01-i486.iso: application/x-iso9660-image; charset=binary
[12:41:04] <Xogium> according to file -i
[12:41:05] <KitsuWhooa> that seems right
[12:41:13] <KitsuWhooa> try file on the block device
[12:41:13] <Xogium> so erm... I guess its messed up somehow ?
[12:41:51] <Xogium> it just says block special 8/16
[12:42:00] <KitsuWhooa> I guess that makes sense
[12:42:19] <KitsuWhooa> uh, fdisk?
[12:42:24] <Xogium> but in my experience iso create actual partitions lol
[12:42:35] <KitsuWhooa> not if it's an actual CD image
[12:43:07] <KitsuWhooa> I'd assume it's an El-Torito disc
[12:43:53] <Xogium> The device contains 'iso9660' signature and it will be removed by a write command. See fdisk(8) man page and --wipe option for more details.
[12:43:53] <Xogium> Device does not contain a recognized partition table.
[12:44:18] <KitsuWhooa> yeah that's correct
[12:44:46] <Xogium> so looks like the process to make the i486 image differs quite a bit from the i686 one
[12:44:46] <KitsuWhooa> maybe install it in a VM disk image and then write that image to the sd card
[12:45:02] <KitsuWhooa> or try the iso on a usb stick
[12:45:15] <Xogium> good idea
[12:45:17] <KitsuWhooa> or burn a CD if you have a usb CD drive
[12:45:26] <KitsuWhooa> I think it's the bios not knowing how to boot off it from the sd card
[12:45:29] <KitsuWhooa> probably expects MBR
[12:45:54] <KitsuWhooa> 15:45:17 <KitsuWhooa> or burn a CD if you have a usb CD drive <-- I say that because I don't think you have PATA on it
[12:46:56] <Xogium> apparently usb is a recognized boot source
[12:47:00] <Xogium> good, good
[12:47:26] <KitsuWhooa> I'd hope the bios on this would show up over uart
[12:48:52] <Xogium> yeah I hoped for this as well, but I have not seen it
[12:49:08] <KitsuWhooa> I don't suppose you have some kind of logic analyzer :p
[12:49:31] <KitsuWhooa> actually
[12:49:42] <KitsuWhooa> I think it makes sense to have the first serial port on a TTL pin
[12:49:54] <KitsuWhooa> so that you have a console and the RS232 port for devices at the same time
[12:50:37] <Xogium> hmm might be right
[12:51:30] <Xogium> I'll have to figure out this thing... I was really really hoping to not have to deal with this console, I don't trust the pinout ahd schematics ever since the vendor plainly admitted to me via support that, yes, the schematics are lying
[12:52:07] <KitsuWhooa> I think it'd be safe to assume 5v, so if you have a UART TTL adapter, you can hook up GND and then plug in RX to suspected pins
[12:52:13] <KitsuWhooa> GND is easy to figure out
[12:52:41] <KitsuWhooa> RX from the adapter side
[12:52:48] <KitsuWhooa> TX on the SBC
[12:53:06] <KitsuWhooa> or, if your adapter is badly designed, it'll say TX on it. I have one of those. It pisses me off every time I see it :)
[12:59:54] <Xogium> I have only 3.3v ttl ones
[13:01:42] <KitsuWhooa> rip
[13:02:35] <KitsuWhooa> lol
[13:02:46] <KitsuWhooa> they want name and an email to download the dataseet
[13:02:49] <KitsuWhooa> datasheet
[13:07:16] <KitsuWhooa> > FIFO UART Port x 10 ( 10 sets COM Port )
[13:07:40] <KitsuWhooa> 10 UARTs, damn
[13:08:25] <Xogium> I have one good news and one semi bad news, I guess ? I tried tons of things and figured out that ttyS3 is rs232. I manually modified grub.cfg boot entry and I can sort of see something, but all the lines get mangled ? Like...
[13:08:36] <KitsuWhooa> incorrect baud
[13:08:42] <KitsuWhooa> ?
[13:08:53] <KitsuWhooa> or it can't handle that fast of a speed
[13:09:07] <KitsuWhooa> or stop bits...
[13:10:37] <Xogium> I'm not sure it's mostly making sense but
[13:11:01] <Xogium> 7.328083] platform regul [ 7.337411] md: Waiting for all devices to be available befo[ 17.803451] random: crng init done
[13:11:32] <KitsuWhooa> what software are you using?
[13:12:17] <Xogium> screen and I've set 115200n8 everywhere, tht is in both console= and in screen when connecting to the other end of the usb adapter
[13:12:33] <KitsuWhooa> yeah that should work
[13:12:41] <KitsuWhooa> it's how I use mine
[13:12:46] <KitsuWhooa> try 9600
[13:16:36] <Xogium> lets see
[13:17:07] <Xogium> whoa that slowed down the boot quite a lot
[13:17:17] <KitsuWhooa> yeeeah :p
[13:17:27] <KitsuWhooa> is it still fucked though?
[13:17:49] <KitsuWhooa> if not, keep increasing it until it starts screwing up
[13:18:31] <Xogium> alright it's not due to baud, I still have the same sort of thing
[13:18:53] <KitsuWhooa> what kernel is that?
[13:19:33] <Xogium> 6.1.24 -- I tried a buildroot build for i586 while I was working on arch/ubuntu mess
[13:19:54] <KitsuWhooa> ah
[13:20:34] <Xogium> it's stuck waiting for the boot device which... Makes sense I reckon because sda is probably not how this mmc is called
[13:20:48] <Xogium> but there's something fishy with the console, still
[13:20:52] <KitsuWhooa> should be able to override with boot=
[13:20:55] <KitsuWhooa> yeah, not sure
[13:21:12] <KitsuWhooa> I assume you've tried restarting screen?
[13:21:22] <KitsuWhooa> maybe grub sets something and then the console thinks it's in a different mode
[13:21:42] <Xogium> yeah I make a habit of closing screen between every change, just so I don't get confused
[13:22:13] <KitsuWhooa> maybe give minicom a try
[13:22:17] <KitsuWhooa> I rarely use it, but it's very configurable
[13:22:22] <KitsuWhooa> maybe you can toggle something randomly there to fix it :p
[13:22:29] <Xogium> I wonder if
[13:23:35] <Xogium> trying flow control
[13:23:48] <KitsuWhooa> I'd assume 9600 would be slow enough to not need flow control
[13:23:54] <Xogium> yeah same
[13:23:57] <KitsuWhooa> plus, I don't see why your PC would be slow :p
[13:24:06] <Xogium> yeah that didn't work
[13:24:12] <Xogium> was worth a shot though :p
[13:24:18] <KitsuWhooa> is it over USB?
[13:24:36] <KitsuWhooa> maybe try a different USB port if so
[13:26:04] <Xogium> yeah usb to rs232 adapter
[13:26:17] <Xogium> good one too, ftdi
[13:27:48] <KitsuWhooa> no idea then
[13:28:02] <KitsuWhooa> does it do that with every line or just the long ones?
[13:28:13] <KitsuWhooa> because to me it looks like it's just missing the last few bytes including the newline
[13:29:05] <Xogium> its random
[13:30:40] <Xogium> well, I think that is enough for today
[13:30:46] <KitsuWhooa> fun :p
[13:30:49] <Xogium> thanks so much for helping :D
[13:30:53] <KitsuWhooa> np
[13:31:15] <Xogium> I now have the mother of all headaches
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[20:18:34] <buildmaster> Hi abaumann!
[20:18:34] <buildmaster> !rq abaumann
[20:18:35] <phrik> buildmaster: <abaumann> Though I find it slightly funny: everything goes to 64-bit and 32-bit gets dropped, and then a 32-bit version of the OS is the main OS for the new 64-bit machines..
[20:18:58] <abaumann> Xogium: the i486 ISO is more like a script to use and build your own ISO from instead of a finished product.
[20:19:14] <abaumann> I tried the whole process once on a galieo, with not so stellar results.
[20:20:12] <abaumann> mkarchiso486 is the main script, it builds just a minimal RAM disk and boots directly from the ISO as root filesystem, hence you have to make sure mkinitcpio-i486.conf contains your block devices you want to mount the ISO from.
[20:20:35] <abaumann> The reason for this is, that on real i486 there is simply not enough memory to load a ramdisk with a root file system.
[20:21:33] <Xogium> how would that ev… Oh dear, so then that 486 iso I downloaded, what was it even? :D
[20:21:43] <abaumann> Also, this i486 ISO uses syslinux and not grub (which also can use the serial, but on the i486 ISO which is published there is zero serial console support.
[20:22:04] <abaumann> Aeh, this is a ISO which works on, aeh, well, a real i486 :-)
[20:23:08] <Xogium> makes sense, then and explains why I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place
[20:23:21] <abaumann> yep, sorry about that.
[20:23:48] <abaumann> Archlinux historically never run on such old hardware, so I had to deviate from their process.
[20:23:58] <Xogium> I guess will have to stick to buildroot
[20:24:14] <abaumann> maybe something like T2SDE is also an option
[20:24:29] <abaumann> And I'm currently playing with a i486tcc linux :-)
[20:24:34] <abaumann> not ready yet, though.
[20:24:49] <Xogium> Never heard of that yet
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[20:26:34] <Xogium> But yeah, no worries. Just a whole lot of confusion not helped by the vendor of this thing
[20:26:38] <abaumann> T2SDE is something like crosstools-ng, buildroot. And it used to support some embedded devices.
[20:28:05] <Xogium> the dcd pin on rs232 isn’t even connected aaaaaah
[20:32:39] <Xogium> I Want to die XD
[20:33:01] <Xogium> We got this hw for nothing
[20:33:14] <abaumann> now you know why you got it for nothing :-)
[20:34:01] <Xogium> Schematics show dcd connected
[20:34:28] <Xogium> Real world probing shows it’s NOT connected
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[20:37:52] <Xogium> Well time to figure out what to do next
[20:38:56] <Xogium> Thanks so much for your help, even if that blew up in my face in the end lol
[20:40:30] <abaumann> yeah, sorry. But in the IA-32 corner everything starts to gets a project.
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[20:41:05] <KillerWasp> IA? what? I'm lost something?
[20:41:13] <Xogium> Maybe one day I get to make some more hardware work on archlinux32 ;)
[20:42:35] <Xogium> already Got to make an old compaq computer including ALL of its original hardware to run, for a friend :D
[20:44:08] <Xogium> Very long story short, I tried to run archlinux32 on an i586 SoC, and failed :p
[20:47:18] <Xogium> buildroot Let me go further, because it can do actual i586 binaries, but the rs232 console output was still messed up. Then I found that one pin we require is not connected *head desk*
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